Re: Nice one Gordon

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Re: Nice one Gordon

Peter Cunningham
Personally I think the government is the worst allocator of resources. Decisions will be afflicted by politics (MPs defending marginal seats will want pork for their constituency), bureaucracy, political correctness and regional policy - never a recipe for optimal allocation of resources. And there will be pressure to keep funding 'lame ducks' that private investors would just leave to die.
 
A radio 4 interview I heard asked how the US was able to find so many projects so quickly for 'public funding' as part of Obama's economic stimulus - the answer was easy these were all the projects that had already been rejected as hairbrained or non-viable that were just being re-presented!
 
The only way it would work would be as a blind investor letting a VC or business angel association take the lead, evaluate the business case and value the opportunity. But would that not just crowd out funds that would have invested anyway.
 
Maybe tax breaks for investment or reviving the small business loan schemes would work - or how about creating a fund that would allow entrepreneurs to claim a minimum and decent revenue when they work on first few months of a start up (having worked and lived in France for several years, many of the entreprenuers I met 'arranged' to be made redundant to be able claim two years salary from the ASSEDIC - 60% of the old salary paid by the government - while they worked on a start up. It was possible as long as you only took dividends and no salary! Makes you wonder why there are not more French entreprenuers? That is because they try and kill entrepreneurs with taxes and redtape as soon as they are successful, but thats another story). I always wondered why we spend so much money for the unemployed to sit on their backsides but never help those that try to help themselves.
 
Thats my rant over!

--- On Mon, 20/4/09, Antony Penn <[hidden email]> wrote:
From: Antony Penn <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Nice one Gordon
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, 20 April, 2009, 2:00 PM

Given that:
1) banks are risk-averse
2) the banking ecenomy is shot; and
3) the UK government have a poor record of encouraging small businesses

You can guarantee that:
a) it will be many many years, if ever; and
b) you will find it near impossible to qualify


On 20/04/2009, Hamlesh Motah <[hidden email]> wrote:
I'd be very surprised if the "Sheriff of Nottingham" manages to make this happen!


On 20/4/09 12:29, Jon Vollemaere wrote:
How long do you think it will take to go live ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8007467.stm



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Re: Nice one Gordon

Chris Powell-2
"But would that not just crowd out funds that would have invested
anyway."  Not sure about that, only 14% of plans get screened by
angels:  
http://www.reincubate.com/blog/2009/apr/16/angels-are-everywhere/ ,
would VCs be significantly better?


Chris Powell
mindyourstreet.com




Peter Cunningham wrote:

> Personally I think the government is the worst allocator of resources.
> Decisions will be afflicted by politics (MPs defending marginal seats
> will want pork for their constituency), bureaucracy, political
> correctness and regional policy - never a recipe for optimal
> allocation of resources. And there will be pressure to keep funding
> 'lame ducks' that private investors would just leave to die.
>  
> A radio 4 interview I heard asked how the US was able to find so many
> projects so quickly for 'public funding' as part of Obama's economic
> stimulus - the answer was easy these were all the projects that had
> already been rejected as hairbrained or non-viable that were just
> being re-presented!
>  
> The only way it would work would be as a blind investor letting a VC
> or business angel association take the lead, evaluate the business
> case and value the opportunity. But would that not just crowd out
> funds that would have invested anyway.
>  
> Maybe tax breaks for investment or reviving the small business loan
> schemes would work - or how about creating a fund that would allow
> entrepreneurs to claim a minimum and decent revenue when they work on
> first few months of a start up (having worked and lived in France for
> several years, many of the entreprenuers I met 'arranged' to be made
> redundant to be able claim two years salary from the ASSEDIC - 60% of
> the old salary paid by the government - while they worked on a start
> up. It was possible as long as you only took dividends and no salary!
> Makes you wonder why there are not more French entreprenuers? That is
> because they try and kill entrepreneurs with taxes and redtape as soon
> as they are successful, but thats another story). I always wondered
> why we spend so much money for the unemployed to sit on their
> backsides but never help those that try to help themselves.
>  
> Thats my rant over!
>
> --- On *Mon, 20/4/09, Antony Penn /<[hidden email]>/* wrote:
>
>     From: Antony Penn <[hidden email]>
>     Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Nice one Gordon
>     To: [hidden email]
>     Date: Monday, 20 April, 2009, 2:00 PM
>
>     Given that:
>     1) banks are risk-averse
>     2) the banking ecenomy is shot; and
>     3) the UK government have a poor record of encouraging small
>     businesses
>
>     You can guarantee that:
>     a) it will be many many years, if ever; and
>     b) you will find it near impossible to qualify
>
>
>     On 20/04/2009, *Hamlesh Motah* <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>         I'd be very surprised if the "Sheriff of Nottingham" manages
>         to make this happen!
>
>
>         On 20/4/09 12:29, Jon Vollemaere wrote:
>
>             How long do you think it will take to go live ?
>
>             http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8007467.stm
>
>
>
>
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RE: Nice one Gordon

Chris Padfield
In reply to this post by Peter Cunningham

>>> The only way it would work would be as a blind investor letting a VC or business angel association take the lead, evaluate the business case and value the opportunity. But would that not just crowd out funds that would have invested anyway.

 

Most public sector support for Venture Capital comes in the way of co-investment funds, e.g. the Early Growth Funds which required at minimum a 1:1 match. London Technology Fund and Creative Capital work on a similar basis. The Enterprise Capital Funds work on a slightly different basis, requiring 1/3 of the fund size to be put up front by private individuals. As you say, one of the main reasons for this is to ensure the public sector is not just supporting companies that the market rejects.

 

RBS was at one point matching private angel investment through at least one angel network; unsurprisingly they are not doing this anymore.

 

_________________

 

Chris Padfield | Investment Manager | London Business Angels & London Seed Capital

[hidden email] | 020 7089 2309
GLE Growth Capital, New City Court, 20 St Thomas Street. London SE1 9RS

www.lbangels.co.uk

 

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Peter Cunningham
Sent: 20 April 2009 20:52
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Nice one Gordon

 

Personally I think the government is the worst allocator of resources. Decisions will be afflicted by politics (MPs defending marginal seats will want pork for their constituency), bureaucracy, political correctness and regional policy - never a recipe for optimal allocation of resources. And there will be pressure to keep funding 'lame ducks' that private investors would just leave to die.

 

A radio 4 interview I heard asked how the US was able to find so many projects so quickly for 'public funding' as part of Obama's economic stimulus - the answer was easy these were all the projects that had already been rejected as hairbrained or non-viable that were just being re-presented!

 

The only way it would work would be as a blind investor letting a VC or business angel association take the lead, evaluate the business case and value the opportunity. But would that not just crowd out funds that would have invested anyway.

 

Maybe tax breaks for investment or reviving the small business loan schemes would work - or how about creating a fund that would allow entrepreneurs to claim a minimum and decent revenue when they work on first few months of a start up (having worked and lived in France for several years, many of the entreprenuers I met 'arranged' to be made redundant to be able claim two years salary from the ASSEDIC - 60% of the old salary paid by the government - while they worked on a start up. It was possible as long as you only took dividends and no salary! Makes you wonder why there are not more French entreprenuers? That is because they try and kill entrepreneurs with taxes and redtape as soon as they are successful, but thats another story). I always wondered why we spend so much money for the unemployed to sit on their backsides but never help those that try to help themselves.

 

Thats my rant over!

--- On Mon, 20/4/09, Antony Penn <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Antony Penn <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Nice one Gordon
To: [hidden email]
Date: Monday, 20 April, 2009, 2:00 PM

Given that:
1) banks are risk-averse
2) the banking ecenomy is shot; and
3) the UK government have a poor record of encouraging small businesses

You can guarantee that:
a) it will be many many years, if ever; and
b) you will find it near impossible to qualify

On 20/04/2009, Hamlesh Motah <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd be very surprised if the "Sheriff of Nottingham" manages to make this happen!


On 20/4/09 12:29, Jon Vollemaere wrote:

How long do you think it will take to go live ?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/8007467.stm




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