[LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

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[LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez





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RE: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2

Hello, you should specify what sort of role you’re looking for based on your experience (e.g. dev, management) and in which sector (e.g. finance)

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] Sent: 28 July 2017 15:02 To: [hidden email] Subject: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Hi Everyone, Hope you're all well… 

Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.

I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into “gainful” employment.

I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!

I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 

Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.

Kind Regards Parvez

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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
Hi I'm a career coach (psychologist), happy to have a chat. 
Rgds
Barbara 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jul 28, 2017, at 3:04 PM, Simon Bone <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hello, you should specify what sort of role you’re looking for based on your experience (e.g. dev, management) and in which sector (e.g. finance)

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] Sent: 28 July 2017 15:02 To: [hidden email] Subject: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Hi Everyone, Hope you're all well… 

Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.

I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into “gainful” employment.

I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!

I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 

Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.

Kind Regards Parvez

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Don't send me mailing list messages https://www.meetup.com/londonocc/list_prefs/?pref=0 Meetup, POB 4668 #37895 NY NY USA 10163 | [hidden email]





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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
I’ve had to do the same, although i’m not sure we’re in the same boat. My stuff didnt do as well as i would like. But after 8 years doing startups meant i had acquired alot of skills but nothing concrete and i found it a bit difficult A: working out what i wanted to do and B: what i could do. Startups means you wear many hats, are adaptable and able to think about the bigger picture. When looking for a perm role recruiters and the like dont seem to value that and as a developer i wasnt a specialist in anything. I understand tech, marketing, pr, management, design, UI/X and exrything in between. So yeah, nailing what i wanted was tough. 

So i decided to go for contracting, it’s an easier route to market and a nice pay cheque too. The company values what i have learned and what i bring to the table. So much so that they’re not offering me a senior position within the company that i’m likely to take. So it’s worked out for me. 

My advice would be, as others have said work out what you want to do. Maybe contract for a while and see if the company you’re working for fits the culture you’re after and see what happens. 

Word of advice though, even though i’m working hard, it’s not as “go go go” as i’m used to and whilst i’m getting everything done and then some the pace is slower for sure. Finding myself getting bored and thinking about the next thing :P 

Andy 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:01, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
So so glad this was posted.

I'm in exactly the same boat.

It's really very difficult with recruiters and even potential employers. 

Mel Sahotay
Director
Nine IX Limited

Mobile:   +44 (0) 7415 310216
Address: 53 Davies Street, London,    
               W1K 5JH
Web:       www.nine-ix.com


On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:56, andrew davey <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’ve had to do the same, although i’m not sure we’re in the same boat. My stuff didnt do as well as i would like. But after 8 years doing startups meant i had acquired alot of skills but nothing concrete and i found it a bit difficult A: working out what i wanted to do and B: what i could do. Startups means you wear many hats, are adaptable and able to think about the bigger picture. When looking for a perm role recruiters and the like dont seem to value that and as a developer i wasnt a specialist in anything. I understand tech, marketing, pr, management, design, UI/X and exrything in between. So yeah, nailing what i wanted was tough. 

So i decided to go for contracting, it’s an easier route to market and a nice pay cheque too. The company values what i have learned and what i bring to the table. So much so that they’re not offering me a senior position within the company that i’m likely to take. So it’s worked out for me. 

My advice would be, as others have said work out what you want to do. Maybe contract for a while and see if the company you’re working for fits the culture you’re after and see what happens. 

Word of advice though, even though i’m working hard, it’s not as “go go go” as i’m used to and whilst i’m getting everything done and then some the pace is slower for sure. Finding myself getting bored and thinking about the next thing :P 

Andy 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:01, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
Heya,

Personally, I think consulting is your best bet - and I've found that many of your startup skills, particularly if you've been involved in planning and strategizing, map really well to a role as a Business Analyst.

Just take stock of all the things that you focused on within your startup and brush up your CV to highlight the actual activities/deliverables that you produced.  If you make your CV more specific deliverable and achievement focused, rather than capability focused, then that really helps your potential employer too.

It's actually quite likely that you'll be able to get a job or a consulting gig with another startup who is looking for someone to fill one of the many roles that you had to do for your own startup.

Good luck with the job search guys!

Cheers,
-Jay

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Mel Sahotay <[hidden email]> wrote:
So so glad this was posted.

I'm in exactly the same boat.

It's really very difficult with recruiters and even potential employers. 

Mel Sahotay
Director
Nine IX Limited

Mobile:   <a href="tel:+44%207415%20310216" target="_blank" value="+447415310216">+44 (0) 7415 310216
Address: 53 Davies Street, London,    
               W1K 5JH
Web:       www.nine-ix.com


On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:56, andrew davey <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’ve had to do the same, although i’m not sure we’re in the same boat. My stuff didnt do as well as i would like. But after 8 years doing startups meant i had acquired alot of skills but nothing concrete and i found it a bit difficult A: working out what i wanted to do and B: what i could do. Startups means you wear many hats, are adaptable and able to think about the bigger picture. When looking for a perm role recruiters and the like dont seem to value that and as a developer i wasnt a specialist in anything. I understand tech, marketing, pr, management, design, UI/X and exrything in between. So yeah, nailing what i wanted was tough. 

So i decided to go for contracting, it’s an easier route to market and a nice pay cheque too. The company values what i have learned and what i bring to the table. So much so that they’re not offering me a senior position within the company that i’m likely to take. So it’s worked out for me. 

My advice would be, as others have said work out what you want to do. Maybe contract for a while and see if the company you’re working for fits the culture you’re after and see what happens. 

Word of advice though, even though i’m working hard, it’s not as “go go go” as i’m used to and whilst i’m getting everything done and then some the pace is slower for sure. Finding myself getting bored and thinking about the next thing :P 

Andy 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:01, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2

Thanks Andy,

I absolutely agree. I was just explaining this to someone, that in startup world i had to do so many things, from configure AWS servers, to crawling through a VAT returns detail. 

Again i agree, about going contracting. I've been looking at consulting. I have been looking at these roles, largely in product design/delivery or infrastructure strategy. I wonder if one of the reasons i'm not having luck is my "job titles" don't show a linear progression. For example "junior product" > "senior product" > "product ninja". In different startups i had different "titles". We didn't give it much thought, and even less importance. What doesn't help is that recruiters put forward only those onto a short list that have highest odds of bagging the role. In their mind those with a linear career are a safer bet. To be fair, I don't begrudge them this. After all they have a business to run.

Finally, yes you're right again... i can't help tinkering with the other product ideas i have. Still doing research... but yes... thinking about the next thing 😊 Including creating a job board that has a UX/UI that isn't a shower of sh1t like so many are !!!


Thanks again
P*


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of andrew davey <[hidden email]>
Sent: 28 July 2017 15:56
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.
 
I’ve had to do the same, although i’m not sure we’re in the same boat. My stuff didnt do as well as i would like. But after 8 years doing startups meant i had acquired alot of skills but nothing concrete and i found it a bit difficult A: working out what i wanted to do and B: what i could do. Startups means you wear many hats, are adaptable and able to think about the bigger picture. When looking for a perm role recruiters and the like dont seem to value that and as a developer i wasnt a specialist in anything. I understand tech, marketing, pr, management, design, UI/X and exrything in between. So yeah, nailing what i wanted was tough. 

So i decided to go for contracting, it’s an easier route to market and a nice pay cheque too. The company values what i have learned and what i bring to the table. So much so that they’re not offering me a senior position within the company that i’m likely to take. So it’s worked out for me. 

My advice would be, as others have said work out what you want to do. Maybe contract for a while and see if the company you’re working for fits the culture you’re after and see what happens. 

Word of advice though, even though i’m working hard, it’s not as “go go go” as i’m used to and whilst i’m getting everything done and then some the pace is slower for sure. Finding myself getting bored and thinking about the next thing :P 

Andy 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:01, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
Wow, it's a real trend!

I've been in same place couple years ago. As former employer I can understand companies which hesitate to offer a place for such "universal soldier": you are less tolerant to stupidity, ready to brake some rules to achieve goals, stress their "well balanced swamp" :)  If be serious, you'll never be 100% back to 9-to-5 job and several potential employers said me strait: "you'll be bored with our routines after 3..5 months".

So freelancing is a good advice. Just remember that:
- price tag should be at least 1.5 ... 2 time higher for not-permanent job (to cover gaps between "employments")
- you should like what you do

Personally I've found myself tenths of times helping such companies when they faced crisis and found that their "stable and reliable" staff could not do anything to go out of troubles.

And one more thing - let's create a group of "former start-upers" - sometimes such experience priceless even for big and sleepy companies. 

With respect,
Ghennadii

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 4:21 PM, Mel Sahotay <[hidden email]> wrote:
So so glad this was posted.

I'm in exactly the same boat.

It's really very difficult with recruiters and even potential employers. 

Mel Sahotay
Director
Nine IX Limited

Mobile:   <a href="tel:+44%207415%20310216" value="+447415310216" target="_blank">+44 (0) 7415 310216
Address: 53 Davies Street, London,    
               W1K 5JH
Web:       www.nine-ix.com


On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:56, andrew davey <[hidden email]> wrote:

I’ve had to do the same, although i’m not sure we’re in the same boat. My stuff didnt do as well as i would like. But after 8 years doing startups meant i had acquired alot of skills but nothing concrete and i found it a bit difficult A: working out what i wanted to do and B: what i could do. Startups means you wear many hats, are adaptable and able to think about the bigger picture. When looking for a perm role recruiters and the like dont seem to value that and as a developer i wasnt a specialist in anything. I understand tech, marketing, pr, management, design, UI/X and exrything in between. So yeah, nailing what i wanted was tough. 

So i decided to go for contracting, it’s an easier route to market and a nice pay cheque too. The company values what i have learned and what i bring to the table. So much so that they’re not offering me a senior position within the company that i’m likely to take. So it’s worked out for me. 

My advice would be, as others have said work out what you want to do. Maybe contract for a while and see if the company you’re working for fits the culture you’re after and see what happens. 

Word of advice though, even though i’m working hard, it’s not as “go go go” as i’m used to and whilst i’m getting everything done and then some the pace is slower for sure. Finding myself getting bored and thinking about the next thing :P 

Andy 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:01, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
or just band together and make the next unicorn :P

On 28 Jul 2017, at 16:59, Ghennadii Mirosnicenco <[hidden email]> wrote:

And one more thing - let's create a group of "former start-upers" - sometimes such experience priceless even for big and sleepy companies. 





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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
That is seriously a very good idea.

So, who's in?

I am. 

Mel Sahotay
Director
Nine IX Limited

Mobile:   +44 (0) 7415 310216
Address: 53 Davies Street, London,    
               W1K 5JH
Web:       www.nine-ix.com


On 28 Jul 2017, at 17:01, andrew davey <[hidden email]> wrote:

or just band together and make the next unicorn :P

On 28 Jul 2017, at 16:59, Ghennadii Mirosnicenco <[hidden email]> wrote:

And one more thing - let's create a group of "former start-upers" - sometimes such experience priceless even for big and sleepy companies. 





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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
"I wonder if one of the reasons i'm not having luck is my "job titles" don't show a linear progression. For example "junior product" > "senior product" > "product ninja". In different startups i had different "titles"."

It's a karma for "doers". Forget about linear progression when you'll achieve some level of skills. People will be afraid of you for many different reasons (mostly as potential competitor for their business or for their management position). Only high-level entrepreneur will hire you and only when he will 100% sure that his position protected enough. Otherwise they prefer two or three "average" employees. Personally I've worked as employee several times in my life and definitely felt that every time (except last one), twice I've even been told honestly about reason why they no comfortable having me as employee. It sounds like "I'm more than happy with your results but I prefer to steer the wheel when you do not need any guidance and often make better choices than I can".

But still - do not stop. The better you are the more precious you are for right company. It's just harder to find such company. And recruiters usually are worthless and distracting. Remember, that you do not pay them, so they definitely do not stand on your side (but trying to pretend so).

With best wishes,
Ghennadii

On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 4:52 PM, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks Andy,

I absolutely agree. I was just explaining this to someone, that in startup world i had to do so many things, from configure AWS servers, to crawling through a VAT returns detail. 

Again i agree, about going contracting. I've been looking at consulting. I have been looking at these roles, largely in product design/delivery or infrastructure strategy. I wonder if one of the reasons i'm not having luck is my "job titles" don't show a linear progression. For example "junior product" > "senior product" > "product ninja". In different startups i had different "titles". We didn't give it much thought, and even less importance. What doesn't help is that recruiters put forward only those onto a short list that have highest odds of bagging the role. In their mind those with a linear career are a safer bet. To be fair, I don't begrudge them this. After all they have a business to run.

Finally, yes you're right again... i can't help tinkering with the other product ideas i have. Still doing research... but yes... thinking about the next thing 😊 Including creating a job board that has a UX/UI that isn't a shower of sh1t like so many are !!!


Thanks again
P*


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of andrew davey <[hidden email]>
Sent: 28 July 2017 15:56
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.
 
I’ve had to do the same, although i’m not sure we’re in the same boat. My stuff didnt do as well as i would like. But after 8 years doing startups meant i had acquired alot of skills but nothing concrete and i found it a bit difficult A: working out what i wanted to do and B: what i could do. Startups means you wear many hats, are adaptable and able to think about the bigger picture. When looking for a perm role recruiters and the like dont seem to value that and as a developer i wasnt a specialist in anything. I understand tech, marketing, pr, management, design, UI/X and exrything in between. So yeah, nailing what i wanted was tough. 

So i decided to go for contracting, it’s an easier route to market and a nice pay cheque too. The company values what i have learned and what i bring to the table. So much so that they’re not offering me a senior position within the company that i’m likely to take. So it’s worked out for me. 

My advice would be, as others have said work out what you want to do. Maybe contract for a while and see if the company you’re working for fits the culture you’re after and see what happens. 

Word of advice though, even though i’m working hard, it’s not as “go go go” as i’m used to and whilst i’m getting everything done and then some the pace is slower for sure. Finding myself getting bored and thinking about the next thing :P 

Andy 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:01, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
+1 on consulting; specialists tend to be easy to value if you need their specialism, but consultants find creative solutions to problems because they can see different approaches, not only a solution (if any) based on single specialist set of skills. As Max Weber put it, the generalist asks the "useful questions".

On 28 July 2017 at 16:52, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Thanks Andy,

I absolutely agree. I was just explaining this to someone, that in startup world i had to do so many things, from configure AWS servers, to crawling through a VAT returns detail. 

Again i agree, about going contracting. I've been looking at consulting. I have been looking at these roles, largely in product design/delivery or infrastructure strategy. I wonder if one of the reasons i'm not having luck is my "job titles" don't show a linear progression. For example "junior product" > "senior product" > "product ninja". In different startups i had different "titles". We didn't give it much thought, and even less importance. What doesn't help is that recruiters put forward only those onto a short list that have highest odds of bagging the role. In their mind those with a linear career are a safer bet. To be fair, I don't begrudge them this. After all they have a business to run.

Finally, yes you're right again... i can't help tinkering with the other product ideas i have. Still doing research... but yes... thinking about the next thing 😊 Including creating a job board that has a UX/UI that isn't a shower of sh1t like so many are !!!


Thanks again
P*


From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]> on behalf of andrew davey <[hidden email]>
Sent: 28 July 2017 15:56
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.
 
I’ve had to do the same, although i’m not sure we’re in the same boat. My stuff didnt do as well as i would like. But after 8 years doing startups meant i had acquired alot of skills but nothing concrete and i found it a bit difficult A: working out what i wanted to do and B: what i could do. Startups means you wear many hats, are adaptable and able to think about the bigger picture. When looking for a perm role recruiters and the like dont seem to value that and as a developer i wasnt a specialist in anything. I understand tech, marketing, pr, management, design, UI/X and exrything in between. So yeah, nailing what i wanted was tough. 

So i decided to go for contracting, it’s an easier route to market and a nice pay cheque too. The company values what i have learned and what i bring to the table. So much so that they’re not offering me a senior position within the company that i’m likely to take. So it’s worked out for me. 

My advice would be, as others have said work out what you want to do. Maybe contract for a while and see if the company you’re working for fits the culture you’re after and see what happens. 

Word of advice though, even though i’m working hard, it’s not as “go go go” as i’m used to and whilst i’m getting everything done and then some the pace is slower for sure. Finding myself getting bored and thinking about the next thing :P 

Andy 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 15:01, Parvez <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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Re: Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
I might be able to help. I have access to a number of business opportunities that you will be given direct support on to grow in your local area. I've just invested in mobile phone charging units with digital advertising screens and call my business SwitchedON. 

I would suggest the best bet would be to invest in a business opportunity that you can reap the reward from and achieve passive income from rather than going back to work for someone else. The transition could be a shock to the system. Email me on [hidden email] or visit www.progress4entrepreneurs.com there are some opportunities on the website that you might find of interest including UK property investing. 

I do agree that your skill set would suit consulting or becoming a business analyst. If you have an MBA that would be a bonus!

Kind regards,

Lena

Sent from my iPhone




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RE: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2

You might also be interested in this discussion

(not to say your startup necessarily failed!)

https://cofounderslab.com/discuss/what-are-entrepreneurs-of-failed-startups-doing?utm_swu=6356

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 28 July 2017 15:02
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

 

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 

 

Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.

 

I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.

 

I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!

 

I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 

 

Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.

 

Kind Regards

Parvez





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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
Despite all the people in big companies that say they love entrepreneurs and they want entrepreneurial spirit in their companies it is mostly utter hogwash.

If you are trying to get out of a start up into a mainstream salaried job, it is very hard for several reasons:

- Trust:  most people in mainstream jobs mistrust entrepreneurs, they think you will be troublesome and quirky after the freedom and lack of structure your life had in a start up and they think that you will be itching to get back to a start up life. So once you rebuild the bank balance, you will be off again and they will have lost the time they invested in you

- you are coming in as a lateral hire. Companies promote talent inhouse and give them time to learn the job. But a lateral hire is expected to be a subject matter expert and immediately operational. They are probably paying a recruiter to find you as well. This means your polyvalent skill set is not as valued as someone who has just done that one thing. A larger business will split roles down often in a Taylorian fashion - so you are probably up against someone who just exactly that one thing for seven years. You will be saying 'wow unambitious  timeserver' but the company doesn't see it that way! 

- HR - why do they give the dumbest people such important roles?  Unfortunately you find people that just want the start and end dates of every job you did just to count the number of years you spent doing each thing. Unfortunately HR in this country is designed to keep talent out of business rather than bring it in! That is why you need to find a way to get around HR

- People recruit people like them. There are countless studies on racism and social inclusion that show this. But the reality is the person interviewing you probably never took a risk in his/her life. It was university, graduate recruitment programme, steady promotions and maybe a move to a competitor. They just don't understand you. 

- Brands - the same way you buy a pair of jeans from a brand you know, recruiters look to hire from well known brands. Your start ups are probably not well known. When I was looking for a job in 2010, the number of times I heard 'it was between you and the other guy, but in the end we took him/her because of the brands on his/her CV'

- Career progression - already mentioned in this thread but they expect to see regular promotions. Those don't happen in the flat structure of start ups. But a good tip is to call yourself VP etc even if there was only you in a 5 man team. People in big companies often suffer from title snobbery 

- Success - most people in bigger businesses just can't get their head around why your business didn't succeed and why you joined a company that wasn't guaranteed to win. They believe this myth that you always have companies chasing you and that the moment you lose confidence in your start up you will just accept one of the eight permanent offers you have lying around. This is total BS, but enough people believe it to impact you. I would recommend a book called 'Are you smart enough to work at Google' which talks about this 

The above is all very negative but you have to be realistic. So what would I suggest?

- Network, network, network: you will get most senior roles via networking. The standard route is full of all the problems above - so try and meet the decision makers directly 

- Get around HR. Jobs on Linked'in used to be posted by the decision makers not HR or agencies, which is why it was great. Now it seems mainly to be recruitment agencies. But you can still contact people directly on Linked'in and ask to meet for a coffee. They may not have a role now but it is rarely time wasted 

- Think hard about all the successes, challenges and problems you overcame in past roles. If the start up did not become the next Facebook, then portray each project as a success. Think of transferrable skills. This is how you are going to have to sell yourself vs people from large brands with a linear career path 

- As mentioned, look at consulting. I don't mean working with a consulting firm but on a short term renewable contract. That can get you around all that HR BS - often you will meet someone who will say 'I would love to hire you but I don't have budget, but I could give you a services contact' or 'HR here is a ball ache, if we go that route it will take 6 months...'. As well as getting in the door, you fill your CV and get paid cash (which often what you need after a start up has emptied your bank account!). I did this in 2011 and, in hindsight, I wish I had done it earlier. The company I worked with kept saying 'we can't believe just how much you know, how quickly you work, how you just keep delivering stuff'. You have to realise how bang average a lot of people are in those big brands and how often they aren't seen for dust at 5pm. Getting into the company somehow will help them see what they can't see on your CV. 

 But in the end, like me, when you sorted out your bank balance you will probably miss the buzz of start up life!!




Sent from my iPhone

On 29 Jul 2017, at 12:02, Simon Bone <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might also be interested in this discussion

(not to say your startup necessarily failed!)

https://cofounderslab.com/discuss/what-are-entrepreneurs-of-failed-startups-doing?utm_swu=6356

 

From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]]
Sent: 28 July 2017 15:02
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

 

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 

 

Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.

 

I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.

 

I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!

 

I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 

 

Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.

 

Kind Regards

Parvez





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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
No jobs, it's a sh*t economy.

The housing market has already crashed.

You could try grow potatoes.


On Saturday, 29 July 2017, 16:41, Peter Cunningham <[hidden email]> wrote:


Despite all the people in big companies that say they love entrepreneurs and they want entrepreneurial spirit in their companies it is mostly utter hogwash.

If you are trying to get out of a start up into a mainstream salaried job, it is very hard for several reasons:

- Trust:  most people in mainstream jobs mistrust entrepreneurs, they think you will be troublesome and quirky after the freedom and lack of structure your life had in a start up and they think that you will be itching to get back to a start up life. So once you rebuild the bank balance, you will be off again and they will have lost the time they invested in you

- you are coming in as a lateral hire. Companies promote talent inhouse and give them time to learn the job. But a lateral hire is expected to be a subject matter expert and immediately operational. They are probably paying a recruiter to find you as well. This means your polyvalent skill set is not as valued as someone who has just done that one thing. A larger business will split roles down often in a Taylorian fashion - so you are probably up against someone who just exactly that one thing for seven years. You will be saying 'wow unambitious  timeserver' but the company doesn't see it that way! 

- HR - why do they give the dumbest people such important roles?  Unfortunately you find people that just want the start and end dates of every job you did just to count the number of years you spent doing each thing. Unfortunately HR in this country is designed to keep talent out of business rather than bring it in! That is why you need to find a way to get around HR

- People recruit people like them. There are countless studies on racism and social inclusion that show this. But the reality is the person interviewing you probably never took a risk in his/her life. It was university, graduate recruitment programme, steady promotions and maybe a move to a competitor. They just don't understand you. 

- Brands - the same way you buy a pair of jeans from a brand you know, recruiters look to hire from well known brands. Your start ups are probably not well known. When I was looking for a job in 2010, the number of times I heard 'it was between you and the other guy, but in the end we took him/her because of the brands on his/her CV'

- Career progression - already mentioned in this thread but they expect to see regular promotions. Those don't happen in the flat structure of start ups. But a good tip is to call yourself VP etc even if there was only you in a 5 man team. People in big companies often suffer from title snobbery 

- Success - most people in bigger businesses just can't get their head around why your business didn't succeed and why you joined a company that wasn't guaranteed to win. They believe this myth that you always have companies chasing you and that the moment you lose confidence in your start up you will just accept one of the eight permanent offers you have lying around. This is total BS, but enough people believe it to impact you. I would recommend a book called 'Are you smart enough to work at Google' which talks about this 

The above is all very negative but you have to be realistic. So what would I suggest?

- Network, network, network: you will get most senior roles via networking. The standard route is full of all the problems above - so try and meet the decision makers directly 

- Get around HR. Jobs on Linked'in used to be posted by the decision makers not HR or agencies, which is why it was great. Now it seems mainly to be recruitment agencies. But you can still contact people directly on Linked'in and ask to meet for a coffee. They may not have a role now but it is rarely time wasted 

- Think hard about all the successes, challenges and problems you overcame in past roles. If the start up did not become the next Facebook, then portray each project as a success. Think of transferrable skills. This is how you are going to have to sell yourself vs people from large brands with a linear career path 

- As mentioned, look at consulting. I don't mean working with a consulting firm but on a short term renewable contract. That can get you around all that HR BS - often you will meet someone who will say 'I would love to hire you but I don't have budget, but I could give you a services contact' or 'HR here is a ball ache, if we go that route it will take 6 months...'. As well as getting in the door, you fill your CV and get paid cash (which often what you need after a start up has emptied your bank account!). I did this in 2011 and, in hindsight, I wish I had done it earlier. The company I worked with kept saying 'we can't believe just how much you know, how quickly you work, how you just keep delivering stuff'. You have to realise how bang average a lot of people are in those big brands and how often they aren't seen for dust at 5pm. Getting into the company somehow will help them see what they can't see on your CV. 

 But in the end, like me, when you sorted out your bank balance you will probably miss the buzz of start up life!!




Sent from my iPhone

On 29 Jul 2017, at 12:02, Simon Bone <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might also be interested in this discussion
(not to say your startup necessarily failed!)
 
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]]
Sent: 28 July 2017 15:02
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.
 
Hi Everyone,
Hope you're all well... 
 
Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.
 
I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.
 
I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!
 
I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 
 
Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.
 
Kind Regards
Parvez




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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
Did you look at 


On 29 Jul 2017, at 16:55, Wilber Webb <[hidden email]> wrote:

No jobs, it's a sh*t economy.

The housing market has already crashed.

You could try grow potatoes.


On Saturday, 29 July 2017, 16:41, Peter Cunningham <[hidden email]> wrote:


Despite all the people in big companies that say they love entrepreneurs and they want entrepreneurial spirit in their companies it is mostly utter hogwash.

If you are trying to get out of a start up into a mainstream salaried job, it is very hard for several reasons:

- Trust:  most people in mainstream jobs mistrust entrepreneurs, they think you will be troublesome and quirky after the freedom and lack of structure your life had in a start up and they think that you will be itching to get back to a start up life. So once you rebuild the bank balance, you will be off again and they will have lost the time they invested in you

- you are coming in as a lateral hire. Companies promote talent inhouse and give them time to learn the job. But a lateral hire is expected to be a subject matter expert and immediately operational. They are probably paying a recruiter to find you as well. This means your polyvalent skill set is not as valued as someone who has just done that one thing. A larger business will split roles down often in a Taylorian fashion - so you are probably up against someone who just exactly that one thing for seven years. You will be saying 'wow unambitious  timeserver' but the company doesn't see it that way! 

- HR - why do they give the dumbest people such important roles?  Unfortunately you find people that just want the start and end dates of every job you did just to count the number of years you spent doing each thing. Unfortunately HR in this country is designed to keep talent out of business rather than bring it in! That is why you need to find a way to get around HR

- People recruit people like them. There are countless studies on racism and social inclusion that show this. But the reality is the person interviewing you probably never took a risk in his/her life. It was university, graduate recruitment programme, steady promotions and maybe a move to a competitor. They just don't understand you. 

- Brands - the same way you buy a pair of jeans from a brand you know, recruiters look to hire from well known brands. Your start ups are probably not well known. When I was looking for a job in 2010, the number of times I heard 'it was between you and the other guy, but in the end we took him/her because of the brands on his/her CV'

- Career progression - already mentioned in this thread but they expect to see regular promotions. Those don't happen in the flat structure of start ups. But a good tip is to call yourself VP etc even if there was only you in a 5 man team. People in big companies often suffer from title snobbery 

- Success - most people in bigger businesses just can't get their head around why your business didn't succeed and why you joined a company that wasn't guaranteed to win. They believe this myth that you always have companies chasing you and that the moment you lose confidence in your start up you will just accept one of the eight permanent offers you have lying around. This is total BS, but enough people believe it to impact you. I would recommend a book called 'Are you smart enough to work at Google' which talks about this 

The above is all very negative but you have to be realistic. So what would I suggest?

- Network, network, network: you will get most senior roles via networking. The standard route is full of all the problems above - so try and meet the decision makers directly 

- Get around HR. Jobs on Linked'in used to be posted by the decision makers not HR or agencies, which is why it was great. Now it seems mainly to be recruitment agencies. But you can still contact people directly on Linked'in and ask to meet for a coffee. They may not have a role now but it is rarely time wasted 

- Think hard about all the successes, challenges and problems you overcame in past roles. If the start up did not become the next Facebook, then portray each project as a success. Think of transferrable skills. This is how you are going to have to sell yourself vs people from large brands with a linear career path 

- As mentioned, look at consulting. I don't mean working with a consulting firm but on a short term renewable contract. That can get you around all that HR BS - often you will meet someone who will say 'I would love to hire you but I don't have budget, but I could give you a services contact' or 'HR here is a ball ache, if we go that route it will take 6 months...'. As well as getting in the door, you fill your CV and get paid cash (which often what you need after a start up has emptied your bank account!). I did this in 2011 and, in hindsight, I wish I had done it earlier. The company I worked with kept saying 'we can't believe just how much you know, how quickly you work, how you just keep delivering stuff'. You have to realise how bang average a lot of people are in those big brands and how often they aren't seen for dust at 5pm. Getting into the company somehow will help them see what they can't see on your CV. 

 But in the end, like me, when you sorted out your bank balance you will probably miss the buzz of start up life!!




Sent from my iPhone

On 29 Jul 2017, at 12:02, Simon Bone <[hidden email]> wrote:

You might also be interested in this discussion
(not to say your startup necessarily failed!)
 
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]]
Sent: 28 July 2017 15:02
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.
 
Hi Everyone,
Hope you're all well... 
 
Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.
 
I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.
 
I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!
 
I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 
 
Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.
 
 
Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.
 
Kind Regards
Parvez




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RE: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2

Like  the idea .

 

 

 

mirum logo

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 28 July 2017 17:08
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

 

That is seriously a very good idea.

 

So, who's in?

 

I am. 

Mel Sahotay

Director

Nine IX Limited

 

Mobile:   +44 (0) 7415 310216

Address: 53 Davies Street, London,    

               W1K 5JH

Web:       www.nine-ix.com

 


On 28 Jul 2017, at 17:01, andrew davey <[hidden email]> wrote:

or just band together and make the next unicorn :P

 

On 28 Jul 2017, at 16:59, Ghennadii Mirosnicenco <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

And one more thing - let's create a group of "former start-upers" - sometimes such experience priceless even for big and sleepy companies. 






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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
Hi Parvez, 

Reading your emails I can definitely relate to you.  "Been there done that" :)
Had my own company for a couple of years, fast growth, loved the craziness, then 2008 hit the build market. In 2009 I chosed to bail out, and play the employee safe card.  

You end up applying for jobs that you could probably do in your sleep and in half the time it is usually done ...  and still noone hires you, frustrating, I know :) 

After a fail interview with a possible employer, the recruiter give the following feedback and advice:

1.You know too much and that is why you pose a threat and you will not be hired.
Remember that usually the one hiring you will be your manager.  
If you want to be hired, play stupid.   

2.  As a startup entrepreneur you are used to, think fast, act fast, see problems, fix problems, think outside the box. That contradicts the 9-5 mentality and lack of pressure that employees are used with. 
Take one year brake, work in a pub, a coffee shop etc. To give yourself time to adjust. Then apply for what your specialisation is. 

3. If you land a job, make sure it is with a company that has the same mentality as you, or you end up either being miserable or resigning one year later. 

 4. If you really are an entrepreneur you will always be one. Sooner or later you will start another company, but this time cut any safety nets and think "Everest or in the grave".

Years later, I look back and I think that those 4 points were some of the best "fishings rods" I ever received. 


Wishing you all the best,
Cristian






On 28 Jul 2017 3:01 pm, "Parvez" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez





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Re: [LondonOpenCoffee] Going back to a job after startup world.

Julian Asher-2
In reply to this post by Julian Asher-2
Hi Parvez, can you ping me on [hidden email] - might have something for you.


On 30 Jul 2017, at 12:15, Cristian <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Parvez, 

Reading your emails I can definitely relate to you.  "Been there done that" :)
Had my own company for a couple of years, fast growth, loved the craziness, then 2008 hit the build market. In 2009 I chosed to bail out, and play the employee safe card.  

You end up applying for jobs that you could probably do in your sleep and in half the time it is usually done ...  and still noone hires you, frustrating, I know :) 

After a fail interview with a possible employer, the recruiter give the following feedback and advice:

1.You know too much and that is why you pose a threat and you will not be hired.
Remember that usually the one hiring you will be your manager.  
If you want to be hired, play stupid.   

2.  As a startup entrepreneur you are used to, think fast, act fast, see problems, fix problems, think outside the box. That contradicts the 9-5 mentality and lack of pressure that employees are used with. 
Take one year brake, work in a pub, a coffee shop etc. To give yourself time to adjust. Then apply for what your specialisation is. 

3. If you land a job, make sure it is with a company that has the same mentality as you, or you end up either being miserable or resigning one year later. 

 4. If you really are an entrepreneur you will always be one. Sooner or later you will start another company, but this time cut any safety nets and think "Everest or in the grave".

Years later, I look back and I think that those 4 points were some of the best "fishings rods" I ever received. 


Wishing you all the best,
Cristian






On 28 Jul 2017 3:01 pm, "Parvez" <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Everyone,

Hope you're all well... 


Are there any specialist recruiters on the list who place exec's from startups. I need some specific advice please. If you send contact details, i'll reach out directly.


I've just exited our last venture. We've sold the customer base. I've decided not to start anything new just yet, and am going back into "gainful" employment.


I must confess i'm struggling with the job hunting lark, and so would appreciate some help. There is probably a sound reason, but i'm not sure what. I had the expectation that having built 3 startups and acquired the necessary battle scars, would validate valuable experience, that companies would want on board. It seems, not so. Unless of course if i had made it to the front page of TechCrunch!!!


I'm a product coming back to market, and so i'd be grateful, if i could speak to recruiter who could provide advice on target market space, how to position myself, and perhaps even reset the perception i have of my own value. 


Finally, if there any of you on the list who exited and went back into a "propa" job, would love to hear your experience. Did you find it hard ? Any lessons that i could learn would be greatly appreciated.



Thanks and hope you all have a great weekend.


Kind Regards

Parvez






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