How much should an in-house web developer cost?

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How much should an in-house web developer cost?

Leah Magoye
I am trying to cost the hiring of an in-house web developer but am not really sure how much they should be...

Also does anyone know of any target schools that good developers generally come from??

Thanks!





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Re: How much should an in-house web developer cost?

Chris Powell-2
It can vary on where you are based, what platform you are thinking of
using, what sort of seniority, whether contract or permanent, and what
responsibilities amongst other things.  Are they just going to develop
scripts or will they be working on server-side development?  Are you
going to offer equity?

A quick search on jobserve (and its equivalents should give you an
idea).  Having said that, as a rough idea, I hired PHP developers in
central London either side of £40k/pa last year.  Rates *may* have
dropped a little since then.


Regards
Chris Powell
mindyourstreet.com




Leah Magoye wrote:

> I am trying to cost the hiring of an in-house web developer but am not
> really sure how much they should be...
>
> Also does anyone know of any target schools that good developers
> generally come from??
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: How much should an in-house web developer cost?

afit
In reply to this post by Leah Magoye
Leah

£18 - 60K, depending on what you're looking for. As a rule of thumb I'd hire at £18 - 25K (junior smart developers) or £40K+ (experienced developers). My experience is that the middle-ground £25 - 40K "average coder" is often best avoided, and that it's better to hire a relatively inexperienced but super-keen work-all-night hacker or a much more senior guru.

I wrote some tips on my blog last year for finding strong technical staff:
http://www.reincubate.com/blog/2008/sep/9/recruiting-strong-technical-staff-start-ups/

It went a bit like this:

"We've hired an awful lot of IT, operational and engineering staff over the years, and we'd love to help you. However, if you're going it alone, here are our top tips:
  • At least 95% of the programmers on the market aren't good programmers (see "Grand Master Programmer" if you're interested to know more). Spotting the difference is hard unless you're technical yourself, and even then it's still tricky. Development patterns and understanding of abstraction are good to explore with candidates, as often it's the principles of software development that matter. In most cases you're better off hiring the excellent Java developer over the middling .NET developer, even if you do use .NET, as a smart developer's skills will translate and bring extra insight.
  • Test candidates carefully. Ask them to write you a program in a language they've never used before, in 30 minutes. You might have to test fifty developers before you find one who can do it well. Often you can find an experienced CTO who can help develop your test or vet candidates.
  • Recruiters are not easy to use effectively. Most of them do not have domain experience, so even if they were in a position to evaluate candidates properly, they couldn't. Recruiters will ask for anything up to 25% or 30%. If you absolutely must use a recruiter, bear in mind that most will work for 12.5%. Of course, they won't tell you this, but once you've made clear you have agreements with some of their competitors, they'll come around after making all sorts of disclaimers.
  • Good technical staff aren't always expensive. Recruiters have a tendency to ask for at least £30K for anyone with any experience. You'll find that a lot of these candidates are in roles where they're currently on something more like £22K, straight after starting. There's no reason you can't find a genius for around £20K, even in Central London.
  • There are lots of niche sites for technology recruitment, but Gumtree has been working well over the last few years, and it's not particularly expensive. Monster are not only particularly expensive, but when using them before, I've only received CVs from foreign candidates, none of whom were cleared to work in the UK. Arranging permits to bring technical staff over used to be fairly quick and relatively inexpensive (<£1,000), but changes in legislation this year have made it much more difficult. Monster continued to bombard me with promotional mail after unsubscribing and deleting my account, so I'd stay well clear.
Assuming you've sorted out your recruitment, remember one more thing. If you haven't worked with technical people before, you may find them hard to manage if you lack technical skills yourself. Get lucky with a good communicator, or find someone (like us) with the experience to help and work with you."

A

PS. Looking forward to enternships launch!


reincubate Aidan Fitzpatrick, Partner, Reincubate
E: [hidden email], T: +44 (0) 7817 681232
Accelerating growth of start-up & entrepreneurial businesses


On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 17:45, Leah Magoye <[hidden email]> wrote:
I am trying to cost the hiring of an in-house web developer but am not really sure how much they should be...

Also does anyone know of any target schools that good developers generally come from??

Thanks!





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Re: How much should an in-house web developer cost?

James-19
In reply to this post by Leah Magoye
On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 01:02:33PM -0400, Aidan Fitzpatrick wrote:

> £18 - 60K, depending on what you're looking for. As a rule of thumb
> I'd hire at £18 - 25K (junior smart developers) or £40K+
> (experienced developers). My experience is that the middle-ground
> £25 - 40K "average coder" is often best avoided, and that it's
> better to hire a relatively inexperienced but super-keen
> work-all-night hacker or a much more senior guru.

Of course, if you're only going to have one of them, a junior person
will lack the mentoring they probably need to become better. I've
always tended to hire either seniors or people straight out of college
or with only a year or two's experience. But you need the seniors to
mentor the juniors, or you end up with a mess.

J

--
  James Aylett

  talktorex.co.uk - xapian.org - uncertaintydivision.org



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Re: How much should an in-house web developer cost?

Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd.
In reply to this post by Leah Magoye
Agree with that, there are numerous factors. If I was you I would not
hire anyone immediately, but rather offer a short term contract so you
can try them out first. Finding the right person for the job is not
easy. Finding the wrong person is *very* easy!
Regarding your question on which schools good developers come from -
none! The best developers come from experience, not schools. You can
hire "normal" developers any time for, as Chris mentioned, both sides of
40k, quite a bit to each side I believe, but the absolutely best ones,
are not available for money alone - they need a specific environment to
thrive. As a fresh startup, you already have one of the possible
ingredients.
I would also ask the question - do you really need the developer to be
in house? Sometimes it's better to benefit from having access to the
people that is right for each part of the job, rather than trying to get
one person to everything. Plus, using the best talents for the different
tasks within the very broad definition "web development", I believe may
be cheaper in the long run as well. Of course there is a bit of overhead
with managing may people rather than one, but if you want the best,
that's what you have to do.
This (finding the right people, following up, making stuff happen,
making sure everyone understands each other, etc.) happens to be exactly
what I do for a living (sorry about the blatant advert).
Ronny.

Chris Powell wrote:

> It can vary on where you are based, what platform you are thinking of
> using, what sort of seniority, whether contract or permanent, and what
> responsibilities amongst other things.  Are they just going to develop
> scripts or will they be working on server-side development?  Are you
> going to offer equity?
>
> A quick search on jobserve (and its equivalents should give you an
> idea).  Having said that, as a rough idea, I hired PHP developers in
> central London either side of £40k/pa last year.  Rates *may* have
> dropped a little since then.
>
>
> Regards
> Chris Powell
> mindyourstreet.com
>
>
>
>
> Leah Magoye wrote:
>> I am trying to cost the hiring of an in-house web developer but am
>> not really sure how much they should be...
>>
>> Also does anyone know of any target schools that good developers
>> generally come from??
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Please Note: If you hit "*REPLY*", your message will be sent to
>> *everyone* on this mailing list ([hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>)
>> This message was sent by Leah Magoye ([hidden email]) from
>> London OpenCoffee Meetup <http://www.meetup.com/opencoffee/>.
>> To learn more about Leah Magoye, visit his/her member profile
>> <http://www.meetup.com/opencoffee/members/9270264/>
>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>> <http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/>
>>
>> Meetup Support: [hidden email]
>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>
>
>
>
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>



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Re: How much should an in-house web developer cost?

Ronny Ager-Wick - Develo Ltd.
In reply to this post by Chris Powell-2
Agree with that, there are numerous factors. If I was you I would not
hire anyone immediately, but rather offer a short term contract so you
can try them out first. Finding the right person for the job is not
easy. Finding the wrong person is *very* easy!
Regarding your question on which schools good developers come from -
none! The best developers come from experience, not schools. You can
hire "normal" developers any time for, as Chris mentioned, both sides of
40k, quite a bit to each side I believe, but the absolutely best ones,
are not available for money alone - they need a specific environment to
thrive. As a fresh startup, you already have one of the possible
ingredients.
I would also ask the question - do you really need the developer to be
in house? Sometimes it's better to benefit from having access to the
people that is right for each part of the job, rather than trying to get
one person to everything. Plus, using the best talents for the different
tasks within the very broad definition "web development", I believe may
be cheaper in the long run as well. Of course there is a bit of overhead
with managing may people rather than one, but if you want the best,
that's what you have to do.
This (finding the right people, following up, making stuff happen,
making sure everyone understands each other, etc.) happens to be exactly
what I do for a living (sorry about the blatant advert).
Ronny.

Chris Powell wrote:

> It can vary on where you are based, what platform you are thinking of
> using, what sort of seniority, whether contract or permanent, and what
> responsibilities amongst other things.  Are they just going to develop
> scripts or will they be working on server-side development?  Are you
> going to offer equity?
>
> A quick search on jobserve (and its equivalents should give you an
> idea).  Having said that, as a rough idea, I hired PHP developers in
> central London either side of £40k/pa last year.  Rates *may* have
> dropped a little since then.
>
>
> Regards
> Chris Powell
> mindyourstreet.com
>
>
>
>
> Leah Magoye wrote:
>> I am trying to cost the hiring of an in-house web developer but am
>> not really sure how much they should be...
>>
>> Also does anyone know of any target schools that good developers
>> generally come from??
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Please Note: If you hit "*REPLY*", your message will be sent to
>> *everyone* on this mailing list ([hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>)
>> This message was sent by Leah Magoye ([hidden email]) from
>> London OpenCoffee Meetup <http://www.meetup.com/opencoffee/>.
>> To learn more about Leah Magoye, visit his/her member profile
>> <http://www.meetup.com/opencoffee/members/9270264/>
>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here
>> <http://www.meetup.com/account/comm/>
>>
>> Meetup Support: [hidden email]
>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>
>
>
>
> --
> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone
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>

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Re: How much should an in-house web developer cost?

FTired
Administrator
In reply to this post by Leah Magoye
Hi

As with hiring anyone, it can be free to 6 figures, and as with anything sometimes free is better than 6 figures. The key to hiring a good developer is to work out if

a) you need a thinker
b) you need a implementor

The former will help you work out your project will take a larger role, and you can just tell them the broad idea and they will run with it. The latter you need to nail down the specs, and tell them exactly what you want, ie I want a registration form with a field for firstname, lastname, etc etc

Once you have decided whether its 'a' or 'b', you need to distill down (and this is best done BEFORE you hire) actually what you want them to do, for example if you want someone to build a iphone app, or a facebook app, or a web based service you need a particular skill set. So lets assume you need someone to build an application which allows you to chat and follow people using 140 characters only (yes I know someone called twiiter has done this). So then you would go and see if there is a reference project like this (opensource etc), if there is, its easier to give this to a developer and say "I want something like that". Now if you are "way out there" and nothing like it exists (highly unlikely), then break it down into lots of smaller steps, since you may be able to start getting momentum un building these smaller steps.

Also note you may not be able to work with just one developer, some are good at doing user side apps, some are good "under the hood" i.e building the backend server/database setup that might be needed.

In addition one thing most people fail to do is to draw the UI with a pen and paper BEFORE they hire anyone, this is free, (and usually can be done by urself), once the UI is done, its like a frame of reference for any coder, they can see the picture and without you speaking know what is needed to be done code wise.

I could go on....

Regards
Iqbal Gandham
L: www.linkedin.com/in/iqbalgandham
T: @iqbalgandham
S: feelin_tired
W: www.iqbalgandham.com


From: Leah Magoye <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, 14 April, 2009 17:45:13
Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] How much should an in-house web developer cost?

I am trying to cost the hiring of an in-house web developer but am not really sure how much they should be...

Also does anyone know of any target schools that good developers generally come from??

Thanks!





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