Quantcast

Equity to Advisors

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
13 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Equity to Advisors

Irene Rukerebuka
 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

Fletch-2
Hi Irene,
 
Assuming I've looked at a project, am happy with the integrity of the founder/s and vice versa, and my instincts tell me the project is valid commercially, the discussion would then turn to equity.
 
Now things at an early stage often don't have any real monetary 'value' as such so taking equity for time seems a bit pointless because you're effectively taking a % of nothing. However, 'options' as part of the contract locked in at a price, and paid out based on performance seems to make a lot more sense to me.
 
However, putting cash in would obviously most likely be for the purchase of shares, so that's different.
 
Now this is only the way my particular brain works, but hope this is of some help.
 
Cheers - Fletch

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Paul (Fletch) Christian
Blog: http://blog.mydnd.com
Tel: +44 7518 345679

Grandfather's Biz (c1942): arcltd.blogspot.com

The contents of this email and all its attachments may contain privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the ordinary user of the email address to which it was addressed. No one else may copy or forward all or any of it in any form. If you receive this email in error, we would be grateful if you would delete it and call or email the sender.




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Fletch ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Fletch, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

Irene Rukerebuka
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Ahh, very interesting Fletch and it's good to know how you guys think.
 
I'm sure other Entrepreneurs have been really keen to work or get advice from an advisor they really respect and maybe subconciously would love to get them on board their idea but may come to them too fuzzy or unclear.
 
This really helps because I never know what to give advisors I really respect and don't want to mess things but seeming too unresearched/unprepared so they feel you wasted their time.
 
Ta
 
Irene

On 13 May 2010 15:06, Fletch <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Irene,
 
Assuming I've looked at a project, am happy with the integrity of the founder/s and vice versa, and my instincts tell me the project is valid commercially, the discussion would then turn to equity.
 
Now things at an early stage often don't have any real monetary 'value' as such so taking equity for time seems a bit pointless because you're effectively taking a % of nothing. However, 'options' as part of the contract locked in at a price, and paid out based on performance seems to make a lot more sense to me.
 
However, putting cash in would obviously most likely be for the purchase of shares, so that's different.
 
Now this is only the way my particular brain works, but hope this is of some help.
 
Cheers - Fletch

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Paul (Fletch) Christian
Blog: http://blog.mydnd.com
Tel: +44 7518 345679

Grandfather's Biz (c1942): arcltd.blogspot.com

The contents of this email and all its attachments may contain privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the ordinary user of the email address to which it was addressed. No one else may copy or forward all or any of it in any form. If you receive this email in error, we would be grateful if you would delete it and call or email the sender.





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Fletch ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Fletch, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

simeon stewart
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
my take on this is that if an advisor isn't prepared to invest equity chances are they aren't too sure about the idea or the team. Is that a fair assumption?

best

sim
Simeon Stewart
Cofacio Ltd
The Lawn, Ealing Green
London, W5 5ER
Tel: 07502249177
Mail: [hidden email]

On 5/13/10 4:28 PM, Irene Rukerebuka wrote:
Ahh, very interesting Fletch and it's good to know how you guys think.
 
I'm sure other Entrepreneurs have been really keen to work or get advice from an advisor they really respect and maybe subconciously would love to get them on board their idea but may come to them too fuzzy or unclear.
 
This really helps because I never know what to give advisors I really respect and don't want to mess things but seeming too unresearched/unprepared so they feel you wasted their time.
 
Ta
 
Irene

On 13 May 2010 15:06, Fletch <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Irene,
 
Assuming I've looked at a project, am happy with the integrity of the founder/s and vice versa, and my instincts tell me the project is valid commercially, the discussion would then turn to equity.
 
Now things at an early stage often don't have any real monetary 'value' as such so taking equity for time seems a bit pointless because you're effectively taking a % of nothing. However, 'options' as part of the contract locked in at a price, and paid out based on performance seems to make a lot more sense to me.
 
However, putting cash in would obviously most likely be for the purchase of shares, so that's different.
 
Now this is only the way my particular brain works, but hope this is of some help.
 
Cheers - Fletch

On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]> wrote:
 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Paul (Fletch) Christian
Blog: http://blog.mydnd.com
Tel: +44 7518 345679

Grandfather's Biz (c1942): arcltd.blogspot.com

The contents of this email and all its attachments may contain privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the ordinary user of the email address to which it was addressed. No one else may copy or forward all or any of it in any form. If you receive this email in error, we would be grateful if you would delete it and call or email the sender.





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Fletch ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Fletch, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by simeon stewart ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about simeon stewart, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: Equity to Advisors

Brian Milnes
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka

Irene,

I’ve been pitched equity many times; only once as a reward for services already rendered, and that was at a heavily discounted price.

Elsewhere it’s been as a perceived inducement and/or as an alternative to paying cash.

Given that a business cannot afford to pay me (or someone else of similar experience) and they need someone of that ilk to succeed, the business is unlikely to succeed.

It’s a bit Catch22.

And I’m sure others here (Maury mentioned his experiences earlier) where we’ve spent hours, days, weeks, months on ventures for them to fall apart, dissolve, go tits up, without passing the tipping point.

The more of these I do, the more robust I become in assessing the potential. The last one took me minutes on meeting the second out of three partners. The first partner has already left to do the roughly same thing on his own. (So my assessment was pretty accurate.)

But others are more tricky. For example, I met Kieran Kunhya at an Open Coffee Meetup in London about this time last year. He had a service, HighDefNow that hit a sweet spot for streaming High Definition Video over a 2MB Broadband connection.

There looked like lots of potential, but I couldn’t see how it was going to monetize successfully. Zebedee and Aniko from this group also took a look, but it came to nought. For me it was worthwhile to do the diligence on the project, but not to put in time for equity. (And like many, that’s an Opportunity Cost issue. I can’t afford to work for nothing, anymore…)

Brian

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Irene Rukerebuka
Sent: 13 May 2010 14:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 

 

Iqbal or anyone,

 

When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?

 

Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?

 

I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.



Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243

Chat Error! Filename not specified.Skype: feelin_tired





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Brian Milnes ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Brian Milnes, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

Irene Rukerebuka
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Ah, wow that's really interesting and really good to know.
 
Lol, Iqbal was asking what is it that Entrepreneurs want to know...THIS is what I want to know!
 
Right, this helps me because it means that I should do a lot of research on the market and my industry before I speak with an advisor, as well as other stuff..
 
Good, I'm on the right track.
 
Thanks Brian.
 
Simeon, I guess so but I think sometimes the Entrepreneur being fuzzy or something can be really detrimental. I've been really belittled by advisors (Business Link!) and I nearly gave up but I didn't because I think they were mean/dimissive because I sounded uncertain.
 
I picked my self up-just!-approached another advisor, feeling more confident and I got interest...
 
Who knows, I just don't get the greatest advice that I feel is constructive, which is all I really want.
 
Irene

On 13 May 2010 16:06, Brian Milnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Irene,

I’ve been pitched equity many times; only once as a reward for services already rendered, and that was at a heavily discounted price.

Elsewhere it’s been as a perceived inducement and/or as an alternative to paying cash.

Given that a business cannot afford to pay me (or someone else of similar experience) and they need someone of that ilk to succeed, the business is unlikely to succeed.

It’s a bit Catch22.

And I’m sure others here (Maury mentioned his experiences earlier) where we’ve spent hours, days, weeks, months on ventures for them to fall apart, dissolve, go tits up, without passing the tipping point.

The more of these I do, the more robust I become in assessing the potential. The last one took me minutes on meeting the second out of three partners. The first partner has already left to do the roughly same thing on his own. (So my assessment was pretty accurate.)

But others are more tricky. For example, I met Kieran Kunhya at an Open Coffee Meetup in London about this time last year. He had a service, HighDefNow that hit a sweet spot for streaming High Definition Video over a 2MB Broadband connection.

There looked like lots of potential, but I couldn’t see how it was going to monetize successfully. Zebedee and Aniko from this group also took a look, but it came to nought. For me it was worthwhile to do the diligence on the project, but not to put in time for equity. (And like many, that’s an Opportunity Cost issue. I can’t afford to work for nothing, anymore…)

Brian

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Irene Rukerebuka
Sent: 13 May 2010 14:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 

 

Iqbal or anyone,

 

When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?

 

Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?

 

I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.



Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243

Chat Error! Filename not specified.Skype: feelin_tired





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Brian Milnes ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Brian Milnes, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

simeon stewart
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
good on you for carrying on Irene, it's not good when people don't get your idea or belittle you but it's all good practice

best

sim
Simeon Stewart
Cofacio Ltd
The Lawn, Ealing Green
London, W5 5ER
Tel: 07502249177
Mail: [hidden email]

On 5/13/10 5:33 PM, Irene Rukerebuka wrote:
Ah, wow that's really interesting and really good to know.
 
Lol, Iqbal was asking what is it that Entrepreneurs want to know...THIS is what I want to know!
 
Right, this helps me because it means that I should do a lot of research on the market and my industry before I speak with an advisor, as well as other stuff..
 
Good, I'm on the right track.
 
Thanks Brian.
 
Simeon, I guess so but I think sometimes the Entrepreneur being fuzzy or something can be really detrimental. I've been really belittled by advisors (Business Link!) and I nearly gave up but I didn't because I think they were mean/dimissive because I sounded uncertain.
 
I picked my self up-just!-approached another advisor, feeling more confident and I got interest...
 
Who knows, I just don't get the greatest advice that I feel is constructive, which is all I really want.
 
Irene

On 13 May 2010 16:06, Brian Milnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Irene,

I’ve been pitched equity many times; only once as a reward for services already rendered, and that was at a heavily discounted price.

Elsewhere it’s been as a perceived inducement and/or as an alternative to paying cash.

Given that a business cannot afford to pay me (or someone else of similar experience) and they need someone of that ilk to succeed, the business is unlikely to succeed.

It’s a bit Catch22.

And I’m sure others here (Maury mentioned his experiences earlier) where we’ve spent hours, days, weeks, months on ventures for them to fall apart, dissolve, go tits up, without passing the tipping point.

The more of these I do, the more robust I become in assessing the potential. The last one took me minutes on meeting the second out of three partners. The first partner has already left to do the roughly same thing on his own. (So my assessment was pretty accurate.)

But others are more tricky. For example, I met Kieran Kunhya at an Open Coffee Meetup in London about this time last year. He had a service, HighDefNow that hit a sweet spot for streaming High Definition Video over a 2MB Broadband connection.

There looked like lots of potential, but I couldn’t see how it was going to monetize successfully. Zebedee and Aniko from this group also took a look, but it came to nought. For me it was worthwhile to do the diligence on the project, but not to put in time for equity. (And like many, that’s an Opportunity Cost issue. I can’t afford to work for nothing, anymore…)

Brian

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Irene Rukerebuka
Sent: 13 May 2010 14:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 

 

Iqbal or anyone,

 

When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?

 

Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?

 

I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.



Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243

Chat Error! Filename not specified.Skype: feelin_tired





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Brian Milnes ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Brian Milnes, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by simeon stewart ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about simeon stewart, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

Fletch-2
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Yes, I say good on you too Irene. As a fellow kiwi and very successful entrepreneur Ben Young says, 'perseverance is genius'! Although in saying that, flogging a dead horse is obviously not.
 
Now (and this is definitely no slight on you Brian) I've also met some advisors who really were crap, and I got to thinking, why are they advisors if they're so good - and not running their own multi-million dollar enterprise? So I've got to the point in my life where, yes, I run my own thing and am happy to help and share my experiences with others - and I don't go to 'professional' advisors for help. That's just my own choice though, and as I said no slight on the good advisors out there.
 
Cheers - Fletch
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 4:41 PM, simeon stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
good on you for carrying on Irene, it's not good when people don't get your idea or belittle you but it's all good practice


best

sim
Simeon Stewart
Cofacio Ltd
The Lawn, Ealing Green
London, W5 5ER
Tel: 07502249177
Mail: [hidden email]

On 5/13/10 5:33 PM, Irene Rukerebuka wrote:
Ah, wow that's really interesting and really good to know.
 
Lol, Iqbal was asking what is it that Entrepreneurs want to know...THIS is what I want to know!
 
Right, this helps me because it means that I should do a lot of research on the market and my industry before I speak with an advisor, as well as other stuff..
 
Good, I'm on the right track.
 
Thanks Brian.
 
Simeon, I guess so but I think sometimes the Entrepreneur being fuzzy or something can be really detrimental. I've been really belittled by advisors (Business Link!) and I nearly gave up but I didn't because I think they were mean/dimissive because I sounded uncertain.
 
I picked my self up-just!-approached another advisor, feeling more confident and I got interest...
 
Who knows, I just don't get the greatest advice that I feel is constructive, which is all I really want.
 
Irene

On 13 May 2010 16:06, Brian Milnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Irene,

I’ve been pitched equity many times; only once as a reward for services already rendered, and that was at a heavily discounted price.

Elsewhere it’s been as a perceived inducement and/or as an alternative to paying cash.

Given that a business cannot afford to pay me (or someone else of similar experience) and they need someone of that ilk to succeed, the business is unlikely to succeed.

It’s a bit Catch22.

And I’m sure others here (Maury mentioned his experiences earlier) where we’ve spent hours, days, weeks, months on ventures for them to fall apart, dissolve, go tits up, without passing the tipping point.

The more of these I do, the more robust I become in assessing the potential. The last one took me minutes on meeting the second out of three partners. The first partner has already left to do the roughly same thing on his own. (So my assessment was pretty accurate.)

But others are more tricky. For example, I met Kieran Kunhya at an Open Coffee Meetup in London about this time last year. He had a service, HighDefNow that hit a sweet spot for streaming High Definition Video over a 2MB Broadband connection.

There looked like lots of potential, but I couldn’t see how it was going to monetize successfully. Zebedee and Aniko from this group also took a look, but it came to nought. For me it was worthwhile to do the diligence on the project, but not to put in time for equity. (And like many, that’s an Opportunity Cost issue. I can’t afford to work for nothing, anymore…)

Brian

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Irene Rukerebuka
Sent: 13 May 2010 14:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 

 

Iqbal or anyone,

 

When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?

 

Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?

 

I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.



Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243

Chat Error! Filename not specified.Skype: feelin_tired





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Brian Milnes ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Brian Milnes, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by simeon stewart ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about simeon stewart, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Paul (Fletch) Christian
Blog: http://blog.mydnd.com
Tel: +44 7518 345679

Grandfather's Biz (c1942): arcltd.blogspot.com

The contents of this email and all its attachments may contain privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the ordinary user of the email address to which it was addressed. No one else may copy or forward all or any of it in any form. If you receive this email in error, we would be grateful if you would delete it and call or email the sender.




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Fletch ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Fletch, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

Irene Rukerebuka
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Flogging a dead horse...indeed..
 
Well the best advice I was never given by an advisor is 'don't be too precious about an idea, it can change'..
 
So my business idea 6 months ago may have the same heart but it's very different now and may be more so in 2 months time...I'm not flakey, I want to get it right.
 
I think if more/any advisors mentioned that to more burgeoning Entrepreneurs, we may decrease that 90% start-up failure rate. No?
 
Ben Young is completely right Fletch, though I think 'Perserverance through learning is genius', could be more apt when it comes to some of us single(close?) minded Entrepreneurs!
 
Cheers

On 13 May 2010 16:50, Fletch <[hidden email]> wrote:
Yes, I say good on you too Irene. As a fellow kiwi and very successful entrepreneur Ben Young says, 'perseverance is genius'! Although in saying that, flogging a dead horse is obviously not.
 
Now (and this is definitely no slight on you Brian) I've also met some advisors who really were crap, and I got to thinking, why are they advisors if they're so good - and not running their own multi-million dollar enterprise? So I've got to the point in my life where, yes, I run my own thing and am happy to help and share my experiences with others - and I don't go to 'professional' advisors for help. That's just my own choice though, and as I said no slight on the good advisors out there.
 
Cheers - Fletch
On Thu, May 13, 2010 at 4:41 PM, simeon stewart <[hidden email]> wrote:
good on you for carrying on Irene, it's not good when people don't get your idea or belittle you but it's all good practice


best

sim
Simeon Stewart
Cofacio Ltd
The Lawn, Ealing Green
London, W5 5ER
Tel: 07502249177
Mail: [hidden email]

On 5/13/10 5:33 PM, Irene Rukerebuka wrote:
Ah, wow that's really interesting and really good to know.
 
Lol, Iqbal was asking what is it that Entrepreneurs want to know...THIS is what I want to know!
 
Right, this helps me because it means that I should do a lot of research on the market and my industry before I speak with an advisor, as well as other stuff..
 
Good, I'm on the right track.
 
Thanks Brian.
 
Simeon, I guess so but I think sometimes the Entrepreneur being fuzzy or something can be really detrimental. I've been really belittled by advisors (Business Link!) and I nearly gave up but I didn't because I think they were mean/dimissive because I sounded uncertain.
 
I picked my self up-just!-approached another advisor, feeling more confident and I got interest...
 
Who knows, I just don't get the greatest advice that I feel is constructive, which is all I really want.
 
Irene

On 13 May 2010 16:06, Brian Milnes <[hidden email]> wrote:

Irene,

I’ve been pitched equity many times; only once as a reward for services already rendered, and that was at a heavily discounted price.

Elsewhere it’s been as a perceived inducement and/or as an alternative to paying cash.

Given that a business cannot afford to pay me (or someone else of similar experience) and they need someone of that ilk to succeed, the business is unlikely to succeed.

It’s a bit Catch22.

And I’m sure others here (Maury mentioned his experiences earlier) where we’ve spent hours, days, weeks, months on ventures for them to fall apart, dissolve, go tits up, without passing the tipping point.

The more of these I do, the more robust I become in assessing the potential. The last one took me minutes on meeting the second out of three partners. The first partner has already left to do the roughly same thing on his own. (So my assessment was pretty accurate.)

But others are more tricky. For example, I met Kieran Kunhya at an Open Coffee Meetup in London about this time last year. He had a service, HighDefNow that hit a sweet spot for streaming High Definition Video over a 2MB Broadband connection.

There looked like lots of potential, but I couldn’t see how it was going to monetize successfully. Zebedee and Aniko from this group also took a look, but it came to nought. For me it was worthwhile to do the diligence on the project, but not to put in time for equity. (And like many, that’s an Opportunity Cost issue. I can’t afford to work for nothing, anymore…)

Brian

 

From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Irene Rukerebuka
Sent: 13 May 2010 14:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 

 

Iqbal or anyone,

 

When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?

 

Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?

 

I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.

 

Thanks,

 

Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.



Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243

Chat Error! Filename not specified.Skype: feelin_tired





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]





--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Brian Milnes ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Brian Milnes, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by simeon stewart ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about simeon stewart, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Paul (Fletch) Christian
Blog: http://blog.mydnd.com
Tel: +44 7518 345679

Grandfather's Biz (c1942): arcltd.blogspot.com

The contents of this email and all its attachments may contain privileged or confidential information. It is intended solely for the ordinary user of the email address to which it was addressed. No one else may copy or forward all or any of it in any form. If you receive this email in error, we would be grateful if you would delete it and call or email the sender.




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Fletch ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Fletch, visit his/her member profile

To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

FTired
Administrator
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Hi

Just got back, and it seems I missed an interesting discussion. I like many others have enough paper to allow the amazon rain forest breath easier for a few years or so...

But to get back to the question

1. I have been asked to give up 10% for 2 hrs worth of work per month, i.e me being the entrepreneur. This is just to let you know what kind of number are thrown about
2. In terms of when asking, I would say as soon as possible :-), since its value is far less and you get far more. Of course this is from the side of the advisor
3. Having said that when the idea is pre-market cash is always easier, and I would advise ANY startup to offer cash if you have it. The reason is you have NO idea what the value of your company is, and offering 1% to an advisor is pointless. I know that is the 'advised' range, but as I mentioned in my last post, 1% usually means a few pounds after 7 yrs in most of the startups. Hence its better to put a few hundred pounds on a credit card for a 3month period and just pay it.
4. The added advantage of this is that with equity you have legal bills to sort out shareholdings, and technically a shareholders agreement. You will then need to get advice on what happens on first round of funding etc etc, and valuations, i.e if value goes down on first round etc etc, i.e lots of paperwork. I do realise that many of us dont bother with the paperwork, and it usually becomes I'll give you x% over a handshake.

5. The other way to do it is to offer equity and promise to convert to cash if needed after x period.

Irene I know that does not really answer your questions, but I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are pre-revenue, and I guess pre-validation, i.e you have not even spoken to a customer, and then a few stages before that, i.e your business model was something you came up with last week, I would suggest cash from the ent. point of view, from an advisor take it all...the equity I mean :-)

I read a few posts later on about howto judge a startup. To me is is the time spent, and the pivots done. If you sit down with a entrepreneur, and they tell you how 1 year ago they came up with ex, and then it changed to y, because of ABC. Today however they have done this, and all this links together (i.e 1 year ago it was a social network, and today its a mobile handset), and the pivots seems to flow based on feedback and iterations, then I may look at it.

Startups take time, I guess 7mnths minimum to get something to a customer, and good feedback, would be interested to know what others think. 12 months is the sweet spot, i.e for build done, and then 2nd year for a customer drive. This is not hard and fast by lets call it 'Iqbal's Thumb Rule'.

Iqbal



From: Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 13 May, 2010 14:50:05
Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

Irene Rukerebuka
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Thanks Iqbal,

Actually I took some advice you threw around months ago about making sure you have customers first ( :-b )
and that is what I'm working with my interns now!

From these posts, I'm feeling, bootstrap and get your customers in asap and if you don't, you need to look at your business and then change it/improve it?

Before I speak or pay an advisor again, I need to be really prepared and this is what I am working towards.

I know my limits and as much as I am a great researcher, I still don't understand how the h*ll you can create an exit, amongst other tech stuff, legal stuff that is soo over my head despite my relentless research skills.

I hope this advice isn't paid stuff because it's all really useful and now I can prepare myself effectively with any future advisors.

Irene

On 13 May 2010 18:40, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

Just got back, and it seems I missed an interesting discussion. I like many others have enough paper to allow the amazon rain forest breath easier for a few years or so...

But to get back to the question

1. I have been asked to give up 10% for 2 hrs worth of work per month, i.e me being the entrepreneur. This is just to let you know what kind of number are thrown about
2. In terms of when asking, I would say as soon as possible :-), since its value is far less and you get far more. Of course this is from the side of the advisor
3. Having said that when the idea is pre-market cash is always easier, and I would advise ANY startup to offer cash if you have it. The reason is you have NO idea what the value of your company is, and offering 1% to an advisor is pointless. I know that is the 'advised' range, but as I mentioned in my last post, 1% usually means a few pounds after 7 yrs in most of the startups. Hence its better to put a few hundred pounds on a credit card for a 3month period and just pay it.
4. The added advantage of this is that with equity you have legal bills to sort out shareholdings, and technically a shareholders agreement. You will then need to get advice on what happens on first round of funding etc etc, and valuations, i.e if value goes down on first round etc etc, i.e lots of paperwork. I do realise that many of us dont bother with the paperwork, and it usually becomes I'll give you x% over a handshake.

5. The other way to do it is to offer equity and promise to convert to cash if needed after x period.

Irene I know that does not really answer your questions, but I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are pre-revenue, and I guess pre-validation, i.e you have not even spoken to a customer, and then a few stages before that, i.e your business model was something you came up with last week, I would suggest cash from the ent. point of view, from an advisor take it all...the equity I mean :-)

I read a few posts later on about howto judge a startup. To me is is the time spent, and the pivots done. If you sit down with a entrepreneur, and they tell you how 1 year ago they came up with ex, and then it changed to y, because of ABC. Today however they have done this, and all this links together (i.e 1 year ago it was a social network, and today its a mobile handset), and the pivots seems to flow based on feedback and iterations, then I may look at it.

Startups take time, I guess 7mnths minimum to get something to a customer, and good feedback, would be interested to know what others think. 12 months is the sweet spot, i.e for build done, and then 2nd year for a customer drive. This is not hard and fast by lets call it 'Iqbal's Thumb Rule'.

Iqbal



From: Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]>Sent: Thu, 13 May, 2010 14:50:05

Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

RE: Equity to Advisors

Bernard-4
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Irene,

I don't know what is "expected" or acceptable...i suspect it always differs.  But I have no doubt that getting customers first is definitely the best policy if one can get there without advice.  It validates everything that you are doing.  

Personally, I bootstrapped my business and then grew organically before (luckily) being approached before the crash.  Throughout the 7 years I spent building my business before I sold I used to bounce ideas off friends who were also building their businesses.  You might think about gradually getting a circle of people around you who you can bounce ideas of - it is definitely cheaper and can be very valuable.

Just a thought.

Regards

Bernard


Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Date: Thu, 13 May 2010 14:36:50 -0400

Thanks Iqbal,

Actually I took some advice you threw around months ago about making sure you have customers first ( :-b )
and that is what I'm working with my interns now!

From these posts, I'm feeling, bootstrap and get your customers in asap and if you don't, you need to look at your business and then change it/improve it?

Before I speak or pay an advisor again, I need to be really prepared and this is what I am working towards.

I know my limits and as much as I am a great researcher, I still don't understand how the h*ll you can create an exit, amongst other tech stuff, legal stuff that is soo over my head despite my relentless research skills.

I hope this advice isn't paid stuff because it's all really useful and now I can prepare myself effectively with any future advisors.

Irene

On 13 May 2010 18:40, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

Just got back, and it seems I missed an interesting discussion. I like many others have enough paper to allow the amazon rain forest breath easier for a few years or so...

But to get back to the question

1. I have been asked to give up 10% for 2 hrs worth of work per month, i.e me being the entrepreneur. This is just to let you know what kind of number are thrown about
2. In terms of when asking, I would say as soon as possible :-), since its value is far less and you get far more. Of course this is from the side of the advisor
3. Having said that when the idea is pre-market cash is always easier, and I would advise ANY startup to offer cash if you have it. The reason is you have NO idea what the value of your company is, and offering 1% to an advisor is pointless. I know that is the 'advised' range, but as I mentioned in my last post, 1% usually means a few pounds after 7 yrs in most of the startups. Hence its better to put a few hundred pounds on a credit card for a 3month period and just pay it.
4. The added advantage of this is that with equity you have legal bills to sort out shareholdings, and technically a shareholders agreement. You will then need to get advice on what happens on first round of funding etc etc, and valuations, i.e if value goes down on first round etc etc, i.e lots of paperwork. I do realise that many of us dont bother with the paperwork, and it usually becomes I'll give you x% over a handshake.

5. The other way to do it is to offer equity and promise to convert to cash if needed after x period.

Irene I know that does not really answer your questions, but I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are pre-revenue, and I guess pre-validation, i.e you have not even spoken to a customer, and then a few stages before that, i.e your business model was something you came up with last week, I would suggest cash from the ent. point of view, from an advisor take it all...the equity I mean :-)

I read a few posts later on about howto judge a startup. To me is is the time spent, and the pivots done. If you sit down with a entrepreneur, and they tell you how 1 year ago they came up with ex, and then it changed to y, because of ABC. Today however they have done this, and all this links together (i.e 1 year ago it was a social network, and today its a mobile handset), and the pivots seems to flow based on feedback and iterations, then I may look at it.

Startups take time, I guess 7mnths minimum to get something to a customer, and good feedback, would be interested to know what others think. 12 months is the sweet spot, i.e for build done, and then 2nd year for a customer drive. This is not hard and fast by lets call it 'Iqbal's Thumb Rule'.

Iqbal



From: Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]>Sent: Thu, 13 May, 2010 14:50:05

Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Bernard ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Bernard, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: Equity to Advisors

FTired
Administrator
In reply to this post by Irene Rukerebuka
Irene,

Best advice I can give when engaging with an adviser is to imagine you are hiring someone to be part of your team. Now usually (I know lots of us never do this, since we have warm and fluffy job descriptions), when hiring you would define a list of 3 non-negotiable criteria the person must have (these can be character based), then you add a few to the list which are skills he must have, and then add a few based on what deliverables you need. What I find is that most people do not know the third. They actually do not know what they need.

Hence to make that easy breakdown your people into two buckets,
a) Build a product
b) Get a customer

I believe you can drop just about everything a startup needs in its early days. I know people will say, "Where is raising money", or "What about accounts" etc, but to me these are support functions not core. You adviser must have both legs in one of the above. Now I do not believe you will get many advisers who will get you a customer, but there advice must get you closer to the customer, there rolodex must get you closer to the customer. The business plan they help you create must help you define the market vertical you are targeting, based on which you can write down the names of the customers you need to call the day after.

Hope you get the idea. Strange I started of the thread asking what startups want from advisers, and now I seem to be telling them what they should ask for :-). I am toying with an idea of framing the steps of a startup, kind of like a checklist, however looking at my todo list, it may happen sometime after winter sets in :-)

Iqbal



From: Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Thu, 13 May, 2010 19:37:35
Subject: Re: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

Thanks Iqbal,

Actually I took some advice you threw around months ago about making sure you have customers first ( :-b )
and that is what I'm working with my interns now!

From these posts, I'm feeling, bootstrap and get your customers in asap and if you don't, you need to look at your business and then change it/improve it?

Before I speak or pay an advisor again, I need to be really prepared and this is what I am working towards.

I know my limits and as much as I am a great researcher, I still don't understand how the h*ll you can create an exit, amongst other tech stuff, legal stuff that is soo over my head despite my relentless research skills.

I hope this advice isn't paid stuff because it's all really useful and now I can prepare myself effectively with any future advisors.

Irene

On 13 May 2010 18:40, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

Just got back, and it seems I missed an interesting discussion. I like many others have enough paper to allow the amazon rain forest breath easier for a few years or so...

But to get back to the question

1. I have been asked to give up 10% for 2 hrs worth of work per month, i.e me being the entrepreneur. This is just to let you know what kind of number are thrown about
2. In terms of when asking, I would say as soon as possible :-), since its value is far less and you get far more. Of course this is from the side of the advisor
3. Having said that when the idea is pre-market cash is always easier, and I would advise ANY startup to offer cash if you have it. The reason is you have NO idea what the value of your company is, and offering 1% to an advisor is pointless. I know that is the 'advised' range, but as I mentioned in my last post, 1% usually means a few pounds after 7 yrs in most of the startups. Hence its better to put a few hundred pounds on a credit card for a 3month period and just pay it.
4. The added advantage of this is that with equity you have legal bills to sort out shareholdings, and technically a shareholders agreement. You will then need to get advice on what happens on first round of funding etc etc, and valuations, i.e if value goes down on first round etc etc, i.e lots of paperwork. I do realise that many of us dont bother with the paperwork, and it usually becomes I'll give you x% over a handshake.

5. The other way to do it is to offer equity and promise to convert to cash if needed after x period.

Irene I know that does not really answer your questions, but I guess what I am trying to say is that if you are pre-revenue, and I guess pre-validation, i.e you have not even spoken to a customer, and then a few stages before that, i.e your business model was something you came up with last week, I would suggest cash from the ent. point of view, from an advisor take it all...the equity I mean :-)

I read a few posts later on about howto judge a startup. To me is is the time spent, and the pivots done. If you sit down with a entrepreneur, and they tell you how 1 year ago they came up with ex, and then it changed to y, because of ABC. Today however they have done this, and all this links together (i.e 1 year ago it was a social network, and today its a mobile handset), and the pivots seems to flow based on feedback and iterations, then I may look at it.

Startups take time, I guess 7mnths minimum to get something to a customer, and good feedback, would be interested to know what others think. 12 months is the sweet spot, i.e for build done, and then 2nd year for a customer drive. This is not hard and fast by lets call it 'Iqbal's Thumb Rule'.

Iqbal



From: Irene Rukerebuka <[hidden email]>Sent: Thu, 13 May, 2010 14:50:05

Subject: [entrepreneur-1056] Equity to Advisors

 
Iqbal or anyone,
 
When do you guys as advisors ask for Equity when/if you believe in a company and that it would be successful?
 
Would the entrepreneur have to come to you with a finished business plan? Marketing Plan? Financial plan with an exit? Or just the idea/proposal because you can tell straight away if the business will be successful?
 
I know you're all not Investers per se but this is really in respond to the conversation below and what some of you have said about believing in a business concept etc.
 
Thanks,
 
Irene

On 11 May 2010 23:55, iqbalgandham <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi

I know this might be a pretty vague question, and hence get little response, but time and again I get approached (as I am sure many others on this list do) by startups, whether pre/post funding, looking for an 'advisor'

However when asked "What do they actually want done" the answer becomes very warm and fluffy, which usually ends up meaning that requirements from both sides are never met. Of course this means its never a win-win, and hence when money is involved 9/10 times, someone somewhere always complains they were 'screwed'.

Of course I am not saying anyone is to blame here, especially since early on normally startups are just looking for a sounding board. However what starts of as a sounding board, can lead to being sucked into the business and eventually spending far more time than initially anticipated. Of course lots of advisors put a time limit on their involvement, which I personally find very tough to adhere to, I mean do you stop half way through a phone conversation :-). Sometimes the advice seeker does not want advice, but someone cheap to actually build out the business for them, i.e the model, who the customer is, etc etc, but surely this has to have more value than a advising role, after all you are building a company for someone.

Unlike a "build me a website role" or "get me a customer" advising does not seem to have any clear defined boundaries. So I guess the question I am throwing out there to those who seek or who are advisors is "What do they consider as advice" or "mentoring" and when does it become "hey I am building the company for you". Or is there a better way of defining the role, or like a accountant or lawyer is a retainer based/per hour method the simplest. When does the role go past just adhoc advice to actually "doing the business for them", i.e something you would do if you working fulltime on the startup.




Regards
I. Gandham (pron ik-ba-al, gand-ham)
T: +44 776 499 4243
Chat Skype: feelin_tired
Contact Me LinkedinTwitterTumblr




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]



--
Irene Rukerebuka



m: 07826255452

t: www.twitter.com/rantersparadise
w: www.hubnovation.org.uk
l:http://uk.linkedin.com/in/irenerukerebuka




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by Irene Rukerebuka ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about Irene Rukerebuka, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]




--
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list ([hidden email])
This message was sent by iqbalgandham ([hidden email]) from London OpenCoffee Meetup.
To learn more about iqbalgandham, visit his/her member profile
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here

Meetup, PO Box 4668 #37895 New York, New York 10163-4668 | [hidden email]
Loading...